Umbrella Terms Usage[]
I recently made some changes to and would like to clarify those here, with the intent of having this article be more considerate to this perspective moving forward, that is: that not all Agender individuals choose to identify under the Trans and/or Non-binary umbrella. I apologize if my initial execution was not ideal.
I identify as Agender (they/them), and I do not identify as Trans nor NB, so while this is a personal topic to me, I do not believe I am the only one to do so. I recognize that my claim may sound like original research, so I will supplement it here in these notes.
First: There are already similar sentiments on the Gender wiki. I know citing another wiki is poor form, but I want to point out that the idea is already out there, and it did not come from me as I did not edit this page. https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Agender
Second, this is partly related to issues that some queer people have about not feeling included by the chevron ("progress") flag: https://youtu.be/axzDqOifZ08 My response: https://youtu.be/jpak_y6655w (yes, I say "problematic" a lot).
Third, I have a cousin who identifies as trans, but our struggles are not exactly the same. For example: tans people want to be able to use whatever mens/women's restroom they feel most comfortable with. Agender people don't want any gender on the restrooms, as it's unnecessary. In other words, bathroom signs should look like this: https://adacentral.com/products/handicap/bathroom/accessible-toilet-ada-restroom-sign To lump me in with trans individuals would not resolve this issue.
Lastly, I know that social media is also not an ideal resource, but if you look across multiple threads and responses you'll see most people did not answer a definitive "yes" to agender being tans. I just select two: https://www.reddit.com/r/agender/comments/vlgbdg/do_we_the_agenders_count_as_trans_or_not/ https://www.reddit.com/r/agender/comments/119dm7w/are_you_trans_if_youre_agender/
And one article which states "nonbinary individuals may view themselves on a spectrum of gender, however, agender people are more likely to identify as not being on a gender spectrum", thus implying some prefer to distinguish between he two. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/agender#pronouns-to-use
For these reasons, I believe that there is enough information out there to consider it "common knowledge" and not require a source to say that some Agender individuals reject the trans/NB label. Just because some agender celebrity hasn't stated it or some news site hasn't reported it does not make it any less true. You may not have met anyone who share this sentiment, but I have. Thank you for your time.
Dash Justice (talk) 20:08, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for raising the concern, Dash Justice! I've attempted some further rewrites to clarify that 1) previously-cited sources established that some agender people don't consider themselves as having any gender at all, and 2) it follows that gendered or gender-related terms would not apply to someone without gender, which is a conclusion of thought rather than a new/separate idea requiring citation.
- The part I'd marked with "source?" was because it was worded in a way that made just one specific stated reason for not using trans or NB as labels was rejecting the concept of gender, which is a different point. Are these rewrites any closer to what you've explained here and want to be sure comes across? Immi Thrax she/her
23:08, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- The part I'd marked with "source?" was because it was worded in a way that made just one specific stated reason for not using trans or NB as labels was rejecting the concept of gender, which is a different point. Are these rewrites any closer to what you've explained here and want to be sure comes across? Immi Thrax she/her
- I think the changes look fine, I do my best to word things as carefully as possible, and it always helps to have a second perspective. Unsure what the protocol is for talk pages, but I would say this is resolved. Dash Justice (talk) 15:49, 5 August 2024 (UTC)